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MARK MCKINNEY - April, 2003
GUY MACPHERSON: So you're going to be living in
Vancouver for about a month coming up, aren't you?
MARK MCKINNEY: Yeah, just about three feet from
Stanley Park, which I'm really looking forward to.
GM: That's gotta be terribly exciting for you. Have
you spent any time here in the past?
MM: Well, you know, I've been to Vancouver on tour a
few times. And I used to fly to Asia a lot on vacation
and I've spent some time... Somehow, I've always been
in Vancouver in a hotel in Gastown in the rain until
last spring, when I was there for four beautiful sunny
days while we were shooting a pay-per-view, and I
discovered the city -- like, really explored it -- and
loved it. It's a beautiful, beautiful place.
GM: And it's a sunny day today. So I think you're
coming at the right time.
MM: I hope so. It's so gorgeous and natural. The
mountains and the city and the ocean, and I'm
thinking, 'I hope I can get people inside.' In a city
of natural treasures.
GM: I think you'll be able to. We've seen it all.
We've seen all the natural treasures. Those are for
tourists. I know you've spent time in Calgary and
Newfoundland...
MM: Calgary, Newfoundland, Toronto. At least, those
were my big stops.
GM: I read that you grew up around the world. Where's
the longest place you've ever lived?
MM: Well, let's see. I was in Denmark for two years.
That was the first place I went when I was a baby.
[unintelligible] three years. Paris three years. Then
we moved to Washington and my dad was there for five
years because he was the number two in the embassy and
straddled two ambassadors, one leaving and one coming
in, so we wound up staying a long time. But I was in
boarding school outside of Toronto for that, but going
back home on vacations and stuff. Washington was the
longest I had an address.
GM: So you're American is what you're telling me. All
this time I thought you were Canadian.
MM: No, I'm as Canadian as they come. There's nothing
like being a Canadian abroad and saying, "I'm
Canadian. No, I'm not English or American." That is my
proud flag.
GM: Especially now? Or are we the enemy now?
MM: I don't know. I don't think we're the enemy.
Diseased northerners is what we are; we're not the
enemy (laughs). They don't wash their hands enough!
GM: Don't be bringing anything here, by the way, when
you come.
MM: Ah, there's nothing to bring.
GM: You live in New York now, or have you moved from
there?
MM: I sort of temporarily relocated to Toronto because
I wound up shooting consecutive projects in a row. I
guess I moved up here last November. I don't know if
it's permanent, but I do kinda like the slightly
dialed-down urban life here compared to New York. But
I miss New York a lot.
GM: So you do feel pretty Canadian.
MM: I DO feel Canadian. I don't think how you can't. I
have a different passport. They inspect me closely at
the border.
GM: So you're forced to. Because, you know, our
favourite pastime is claiming celebrities. But we'll
drop you in a second if you forsake us. Because we're
a small people... I didn't know that you had a brother
who's also in comedy.
MM: Yeah, he sort of followed along. He did
TheatreSports in Ottawa. Then he had a comedy troupe
in Toronto that followed us on to the CBC briefly,
called The Vacant Lot -- a really funny group. And
they kind of all migrated to New York and then most of
them filtered out to L.A. And he sort of morphed into
a comedy producer and developed and directed this
ongoing series with this comic named Dave Attell,
called "Insomniac". They've done now four or five
seasons. They've run out of cities in the United
States so they're now going to Ireland and Amsterdam
and hanging out till all hours. He's got a production
company in New York.
GM: Why don't they come up here?
MM: They did Montreal, they did Toronto...
GM: I guess that's about it... Now, coming from such
an intelligent family such as yours is, it must make
them terribly proud -- two kids in comedy.
MM: I think it's odder.
GM: At first were they going, "What are you DOING?!"
MM: I don't think it was quite like that. I mean, my
dad, who was a fairly salty man of few words, I asked
him once. I said, "What do you think about me being in
comedy?" He said, "You know, I worried a lot when you
were in the clubs making no money..." -- and at this
point I was at Saturday Night Live as a writer back in
the late '80s -- and he said, "but now that it's
turned into a career, great." That was it.
GM: I know all this information about you because of
these fan sites on the internet. That's gotta be a
weird feeling.
MM: I haven't checked them out in a while. What's new?
What am I up to?
GM: The biographical information doesn't change. Have
you ever met any of these webmasters who devote their
lives to following you?
MM: They show up on tour a lot. One of them is a woman
named Tavie, who writes a lot of stuff and kept
a couple of the message boards going. She must have
shown up to fully a third of the shows on the last
couple of tours we did.
GM: And? Is she all there?
MM: She was probably singularly not impressed with us.
GM: Why's that?
MM: Well, I guess she really likes our comedy and is
just okay about us.
GM: They say you should never meet the people you
worship.
MM: I think that is true. To some extent. It's not
universally true.
GM: Has it ever happened to you? Who do you really
look up to, or did you, and you got to meet?
MM: I was in a movie with John Cleese. He was neat. At
this point I had been in the business a few years, so
I didn't expect him to be 'on' or do the Ministry of
Funny Walks for me or anything like that. He was just
kind of shy and quiet and concerned about the scenes
we had together.
GM: What film was that?
MM: It was kind of a dismal remake of The Out of
Towners, with Steve Martin and Goldie Hawn.
GM: "A dismal remake."
MM: Don't quote me on that. Oh, go ahead.
GM: Do people come up to you and say, "Hey, do the
Headcrusher, do Chicken Lady."
MM: That happens, but I stopped going to those bars.
GM: It must get tiresome.
MM: No, most of the time it's someone saying something
like, "I really appreciate your work" or "I grew up
watching your show" or in more extreme cases, it's
"You show really helped me out, made me feel okay."
And that's all good.
GM: You've won six Geminis. What's a Gemini?
MM: Geminis are for Canadian television.
GM: I know. I'm Canadian after all... Are the Kids
going to tour again?
MM: Never say never. I mean, I'm amazed we managed to
get two together, that there were gaps in everyone's
schedule to accommodate it.
GM: Do you regret choosing that name? Being Kids when
you're on tour at 60?
MM: Oh, it waxes and wanes, you know. I think I was
something like 200 pounds on the first reunion tour
that we did in 2000. I think that was one of the bad
times to be called that name. But no, it's our name.
GM: I don't like to play favourites, but you were my
favourite Kid.
MM: That's because you're so bright.
GM: You're also the third one that I've interviewed.
That being said, I hated the Chicken Lady.
MM: Did you really?
GM: However, recently in my neighborhood, there's been
this woman who it must have been based on.
MM: There's about five of them around the city.
Someone said, "You gotta go to this post office
station in Toronto and see this woman. She's the
Chicken Lady." And I went down, and she kinda was.
GM: You're going to be living in the West End, and
that's where I live. So you're going to see this
woman. It's unbelievable. So I do have a new
appreciation for her. Before I just didn't get it.
MM: Well, it was a happy accident. It was a really fun
character to do. It was one of those characters where
I got the voice -- which is how I develop a lot of
characters -- and then the writing comes. I liked what
I was writing when I was babbling to myself in this
idiotic screechy voice.
GM: Is she based on someone?
MM: No, not really. It really happened as an accident.
Kevin had written a scene, because he started going to
therapy -- he came from kind of a rough family -- and
in therapy they teach you that you not think that you
have to perform, you know what I mean? To respect your
boundaries and stuff. So of course he turned it into a
sketch and it was basically a guy at a circus who
could make his nose bleed at will. Part of the freak
show. And he's sort of accosted on his lunch hour, his
precious lunch hour, by these bratty kids saying,
"Come on, do it! Make your nose bleed!" And he says,
"I don't have to do this anymore. I don't have to
prove anything to you. I'm dealing with my issues in
therapy. This is my lunch hour and I want you to
respect that. You want to see an emotional dependant,
go see the Chicken Lady." And so as we read through
these sketches, as we would do, someone said, "You
should show the Chicken Lady." And I had taught
Browning's "Freaks". Do you know that movie?
GM: No.
MM: Oh, you don't? It's a 1930-something movie.
GM: Oh! I've heard about it, yes.
MM: Yeah, yeah, and it began, there's this bitch who
sort of like causes all this trouble among the freaks
of a circus show. She's this beauty and seduces this
strong man, I can't remember exactly the plot. But at
the end, all the freaks grab her and they turn her
into this chicken lady by chopping off various parts
and stuff.
GM: And thus she was born.
MM: And thus she was born.
GM: I saw your tour two or three times.
MM: Oh, were you at the Vogue when we played there?
GM: Yeah.
MM: That was maybe one of my favourite legs.
GM: Why was that?
MM: One, because we opened the Vogue. And it was this
great old space. I think it was kind of early enough
because we did one tour at the end of our second year,
or first year, of Kids in the Hall that was sort of
underwritten by HBO. We were playing these 600-1000
seat places. But it was amazing to us that we would
pull into a place like Atlanta and people would show
up and know the characters and really like the show.
And the next tour we did landed us in Vancouver at
that place and it was just so great. The audience was
so great.
GM: Is that what makes a show good? Because you're
doing basically the same material, so is it the
audience connecting with it?
MM: I think so. We, I think in the second tour even
more than the first tour, try and write more stuff.
Just throw out some new stuff. Assuming that half the
audience had never seen us live before and would want
to see a Headcrusher sketch or something like that.
And the rest we actually write and work together
again.
GM: And you enjoy that process, I guess.
MM: Yeah. It's fun. And it's fun to do it on stage.
Work stuff out. And not necessarily try and be perfect
and slick and be like a '50s cover band that's hitting
the road again.
GM: You have that freedom in sketch, don't you?
MM: Kind of, yeah.
GM: You have to follow the script, but you also have
the freedom to goof off a bit.
MM: Yeah, you do. And if you go off, you're going off
with people you're pretty comfortable going off with.
GM: In "Fully Committed" it's just you. You don't go
off on that, do you?
MM: No, but it seems like you are. There are so many
characters, there are so many different points to hit
that there's always something to chew on, there's
always an area to explore. One character, you may not
like the way it came off the night before. You think
about it or sleep on it over night and go at it on a
different take the next day. I mean, the show is set,
it tells a certain story, but I'm not running up and
down the aisles asking people their names and stuff.
But it is a very present show in terms of the theatre.
There's a little bit less of a fourth wall than some
of the plays that I've done in New York.
GM: You talk about doing all these characters. How
would you explain it to somebody who doesn't know?
MM: Well, the main story is the story of Sam, who is
the guy in this incredibly popular and prestigious
restaurant in New York who's having a day from hell
because he's answering the phones in the basement.
He's the reservation guy and the two other people
haven't shown up for work, so he's having a day from
hell. And it's just about him getting through that day
and trying to hold onto his dignity.
GM: And the characters are the customers?
MM: The people who call in. The customers, the chef,
his agent -- he's an actor, he's trying to get out of
this basement.
GM: How long have you been performing the play?
MM: I was rehearsing this in New York when 9/11
happened. And I came up to Toronto that fall a couple
weeks later and did it for four months here, and then
five or six weeks in Montreal last summer at the
comedy festival. So it's been an intermittent thing. I
haven't been on the road with this. No. God.
GM: So somehow, somebody just lured you out here.
MM: Yeah. I mean, I know the theatre. It's a gorgeous
theatre. And it's a great town and it's summer and I
hope it'll work. But I left Montreal way happier with
the show there. Like, I felt that I made it better,
but there were still a couple of things I wanted to
come back and try and this just sounded ideal. Five,
six, seven weeks, however long it lasts out there. A
chance to do it again.
GM: What drew you to it in the first place?
MM: I saw it in New York. I was supposed to go into it
in New York. It had become a big hit. It was playing
in a 300-seat theatre downtown with the original
actor, Mark Setlock. And then he got replaced by Roger
Bart who then left to go into The Producers. And when
Roger left, there was still a big audience for it. And
I couldn't go in, I think it was because I was doing
Kids in the Hall. Either that or I was writing the
mini-series that I'm filming right now here in
Toronto. So I wanted to do it there, and then this
opportunity came up to do it up in Toronto and then
later in Montreal, so I jumped. Because I like the
play. It's kinda good for someone like me, who's a
character guy, I guess.
GM: I didn't realize you have done so much theatre
until I read your bio. I see that the New York Times
called you "one of the top flight comic actors on the
New York stage."
MM: They were very nice. That was a good day.
GM: So no doubt you'll be in the top ten on the
Vancouver stage... But that wasn't for Fully
Committed, was it?
MM: That was for the play that I did before called
"Fuddy Meers". But he was writing about the other two
or three plays I'd done in New York -- a production of
"A Flea in Her Ear" that got a lot of attention, and
"Fuddy Meers" was a breakout play that started out as
part of the Manhattan Theatre Club season and we did
it through the fall of 1999 or 2000 or whatever. And
then I did the Kids in the Hall tour and it
transferred. Jean Doumanian, Woody Allen's
former producing partner, came in and moved it down to
[Minetta Lane] (sp?) in Greenwich Village and it ran
there for a few more months. And I was able to go back
into it.
GM: Was this after your stint on Saturday Night Live?
MM: Yeah.
GM: I would think that you'd also be good at drama.
Have you done much of that?
MM: Funny you should ask. This has been the year of
drama for me. I did a dramatic role on a Canadian
independent feature by a Vancouver guy named Scott
Smith called the Falling Angels, the Barbara Goudy
book. It'll be at the festival. With Miranda
Richardson and Callum Keith Rennie. And I got the lead
in the Guy Madden movie in February, which is a very
dramatic, Guy Maddenish film, and Isabella Rossolini
was my co-star. But it was serious. Serious acting.
And this miniseries, even though it's a dramedy or a
come-rama or whatever you want to call it, has also
got some very serious aspects to it.
GM: Who is the miniseries produced for? Who's going to
air it?
MM: The Movie Channel. And it may have a different
partner out west. Because I remember when the
financing was coming together, it was someone from the
west who kind of rescued it.
GM: Back to "Fully Committed". The restaurants I go to
don't take reservations.
MM: Neither do I. The weird thing is I've been to a
lot of these restaurants. You kinda go once then go
"Fuck! I spent that much money?" But the thing about
the restaurant scene in New York is that if you have a
hot restaurant of the moment, you are a rock star. And
everyone wants to eat there. And there are about 50,
60 restaurants that are of that calibre. And this play
is set in sort of like November, in New York, which
would be like the absolute Thanksgiving, Christmassy
kind of era where it's impossible to get one. The
competition becomes ferocious.
GM: It's a good thing you're a celebrity, because
you'd never have to wait.
MM: Oh, I don't have that kind of pull. You've gotta
be like Perelman or somebody like that to be able to
waltz into Bouley any time you want.
GM: I would think, if I went some place where they
said, "Oh no, we're fully booked", I'd go, "Okay, well
I'll go somewhere else." Or "When can I book a date?"
MM: I'm not that impatient about it, either. But it's
a different kind of scene, you know? I'm not sure if a
lot of your go-go Vancouver lawyers would take no as
an answer from Lumiere, you know?
GM: You're an improvisor and a sketch comic. How do
you like performing the same material every night?
MM: I really like it because it doesn't... I did this
for four months in Toronto and it didn't get stale.
It's got a lot to chew on, if that makes any sense.
You know what I mean? It's good-boned.
GM: I guess the audience reacts at the places you want
them to react, it's that polished.
MM: Well, you hope. I mean, I think if you give them
the character as three-dimensionally as possible, and
some of them do -- you just become the guy or the
woman -- they recognize it, they recognize the
situation, they can ride the comedy in the story with
you. And yet there's always one character, and it
might be a small one, but you want to get that moment
absolutely perfect. So that's what you obsess about
when you go to bed.
GM: After your run in Vancouver, are you taking it
anywhere else?
MM: No. No plans. No, I was really happy to get a shot
at doing it again. But I'm not trying to go across the
country with it or anything. I don't want to. I kind
of really worked, the gap between the Toronto run and
the Montreal run. Part of my brain was working on what
I wanted to do different with the play and it just felt
like a good show.
GM: Are there aspects of it you want to do different
for Vancouver or have you nailed it now?
MM: Well, no, you kind of go work on the characters
and figure out which ones you want to do a little bit
better. The character Stan has this very passive
aggressive friend named Jerry, which I kind of got
working better in Montreal but I still think of the
right gesture or the right inflection to his accent or
something, I'll say the first line and they'll know
exactly who he is. It's a great challenge, it really
is. It's fantastic. You get in incredible shape doing
this show.
GM: So it's a win-win situation for you. Lots of
activity, running around?
MM: Running around. You wind up panting at certain
points of the show.